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Post by Brittnee on Jan 28, 2009 12:06:35 GMT -8
Good afternoon everyone. This is Brian and Anni's Niece Brittnee. I am just stopping by to say HI.
So HI!
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anni
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Post by anni on Jan 28, 2009 17:36:52 GMT -8
Hey, Brittnee!!! Great to see you here, too!!! ;D
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Post by Andrew on Jan 30, 2009 12:22:53 GMT -8
If you wish to be a peaceful community you must prepare for war to the extent your most aggressive neighbor would think twice (or perhaps 6 or 7 times) before messing with you. The alternative is to become a soon forgotten footnote in history.
Unfortunately this preparation does significantly compromise your peacefulness, which is your cost for deciding to live in a highly imperfect reality.
As for politicians, "The exception proves the rule".
Now, let me clarify. The common interpretation of this statement, as in a mathematical "proof", is nonsensical. The original, now forgotten meaning is thus: The Proof House of Liege will fire a gun with an excessively powerful "proof load" before affixing to it their proof mark. In other words, if the rule survives the exceptions it is a good rule.
I think the statement that our politicians are completely inadequate to the task before them can easily survive not one but even several exceptions.
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anni
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Post by anni on Jan 30, 2009 20:22:24 GMT -8
If you wish to be a peaceful community you must prepare for war to the extent your most aggressive neighbor would think twice (or perhaps 6 or 7 times) before messing with you. [glow=red,2,300]The alternative is to become a soon forgotten footnote in history.[/glow] Like Jesus and Gandhi?
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Post by Jeanne on Jan 31, 2009 7:51:12 GMT -8
What if we prepared for peace?
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Roberta
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Post by Roberta on Feb 2, 2009 11:36:42 GMT -8
Our military budget is larger than the entire rest of the world's combined. Are we safe?
Our ham-fisted "war on terror" creates more hostility, from which no amount of soldiers and weapons can truly defend us.
General Petraeus who when first put in charge of the Iraq operation said that there was no military solution, now says about Afghanistan: "You don't kill or capture your way out of an industrial strength insurgency."
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Post by ajg on Feb 4, 2009 11:52:17 GMT -8
Replying to several.
Jesus was, of course, killed for his peacefulness, but that is neither here nor there. His followers used, and still use, his name as an excuse for violence against others. Christianity was spread by mob violence, organized "military orders", economic and social pressure and general slaughter. I'm sure Jesus wouldn't favor burning people at the stake - but his peaceful message failed.
Gandhi was the right man in the right place at the right time - or he wouldn't have even been a footnote. His peaceful movement freed a subjugated people from a conquerer that really very much needed an excuse to free itself from it's own empire. I'm sure Gandhi knew that. Not long before, an English governor in India deliberately starved to death as many Indians as Hitler killed of Jews - and they surely could have done it again if they wanted to stay - they didn't.
Preparing for peace is entirely unnecessary. It's the way things should be - you just go about your life. Unfortunately you always have a neighbor who considers that a sign of weakness. It takes only one bad apple to rot the barrel - and our barrel is pretty well rotted.
Yes, our military budget is vastly bloated - and a very large part of that budget should rightly be used for human services. It's a sign of the incompetence of our leaders and their close involvement with profiteers. It's a sign of a leadership that considers arrogance and force the negotiating positions of first and last resort. This really needs fixing - and it's going to be really hard to fix.
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Feb 5, 2009 0:03:36 GMT -8
Welcome again, Andrew. I'd rather good Christians comment on Jesus and better peaceniks than me on Gandhi. I'll just say that I don't believe that Jesus' message failed because of some of his followers -- it's still out there. Nor can you attribute Gandhi's success solely to timing while ignoring his genius -- or his activism. Yes, our military budget is vastly bloated - and a very large part of that budget should rightly be used for human services. It's a sign of the incompetence of our leaders and their close involvement with profiteers. It's a sign of a leadership that considers arrogance and force the negotiating positions of first and last resort. This really needs fixing - and it's going to be really hard to fix. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I don't blame the leaders as much as I do us citizens. If only ten percent of the U.S. population objected to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 -- if we had acted like Gandhi -- we might never have occupied that nation. The Cold War model for our military and diplomacy is dead but the military-industrial complex lives and thrives. Yes, Eisenhower waited until he was leaving office to warn us. But we have yet to heed his call.
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Post by Jeanne on Feb 6, 2009 21:17:19 GMT -8
This is in response to Brian's response to Andrew aka ajg. ( Brian, sometime soon, perhaps you could teach me how to make those nice quote boxes...I just might be teachable.)
I am not sure if I qualify as a "good Christian" but I will share some thoughts. Yes, Jesus did (and still) upsets established authority with his concept of loving our enemy. An excellent book on the subject is Nonviolence: The history of a Dangerous Idea by Mark Kurlansky. (We are reading this in a peace reading group that meets at my house once a month. To all who read this, let me know if you're interested in joining us.) Andrew, you state that Jesus' message has failed, as if we have no more chances. As if we're done. I think we have a chance right now and in every moment thereafter to live up to Jesus' message. When faced with doubtful arguments about the possibility of Christ's vision of the Kingdom Of Heaven (which King inclusively referred to as Beloved Community) he said that 2000 years was a short time to expect successful results for such an earth shattering, revolutionary idea. He was in it for the long haul. That patience turned out to be very effective, I think. And when you look at a time line, tens of thousands of years of people whacking each other with whatever they could grasp in their hands, 2000 years doesn't seem all that long.
It's fascinating to me that MLK who was a Christian, learned so much from and was inspired by Gandhi. And that Gandhi found shape for his vision from Jesus. It seems like a beautiful weaving of truth and love through cultures and time.
Concerning preparing for peace...bad apples are inevitable. Do we choose to react with war because that's the way it has always been done? Or do we dare to try new and different approaches? Such as trusting and giving weight to the process of verbal and visual communication. (Like on a Peace Vigil message board) Intentionally shaping our culture instead of being a victim to it. Choosing to imagine peace ( I have a dream...) The possibilities abound.
Peace,
Jeanne
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anni
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Post by anni on Feb 7, 2009 17:34:23 GMT -8
Truly inspired AND inspiring, Jeanne. Thank you!
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